---
title: "322 | The Trust Recession: Why Leadership Isn’t Working Like It Used To"
description: Trust is harder to earn than ever. Learn how leaders build real trust, create safety, and lead with credibility in uncertain times.
image: https://podcast.get4sight.com/hubfs/322%20%20LeadCulture%20Podcast.png
---

[![4sight-logo](https://podcast.get4sight.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Logos/4sight-logo.png?width=160&height=42&name=4sight-logo.png) 

](https://www.get4sight.com/)

[![4sight-logo](https://podcast.get4sight.com/hubfs/Logos/4sight-logo.png) ](https://www.get4sight.com/)

[![](https://podcast.get4sight.com/hubfs/322%20%20LeadCulture%20Podcast.png) ](https://podcast.get4sight.com/322-the-trust-recession-why-leadership-isnt-working-like-it-used-to)

# 322 | The Trust Recession: Why Leadership Isn’t Working Like It Used To

Posted by [Jenni Catron](https://podcast.get4sight.com/author/jenni-catron) on Jan 20, 2026 7:48:45 PM

# 322 | The Trust Recession: Why Leadership Isn’t Working Like It Used To

Trust is at the center of everything leaders want—but in today’s skeptical, information-saturated world, trust is harder to earn than ever.

In this episode of the *LeadCulture Podcast*, Jenni Catron sits down with financial coach, business owner, and speaker MJ Pittman for a timely conversation on what he calls the *trust recession*—and why it places an even greater responsibility on leaders. Together, they unpack why likability isn’t the same as trust, how predictability creates psychological safety, and what leaders often overlook when they assume trust should already exist.

MJ brings a fresh lens by blending financial principles with leadership realities, offering practical frameworks leaders can actually apply. From understanding why trust is rooted in safety—not charisma—to exploring the five questions every person is subconsciously asking before they trust a leader, this conversation challenges leaders to rethink how trust is built, sustained, and repaired.

If you’re leading in uncertain times, navigating team skepticism, or wondering why clarity and consistency matter more than ever, this episode will give you language, insight, and actionable next steps to lead with greater credibility and confidence.

**Key takeaways include:**

- Why we’re experiencing a “trust recession” in organizations
- The difference between likability and trust—and why it matters
- How predictability builds safety in both calm and stressful seasons
- The five questions people ask before they trust a leader
- Why trust is a learnable leadership skill—not a personality trait

This is a must-listen for leaders who want to strengthen culture, deepen influence, and lead in a way that earns trust over time—not just goodwill in the moment.

Learn more about MJ here: [https://mjpittman.com/](https://mjpittman.com/)

[Connect with MJ on Instagram. ](https://www.instagram.com/mr.mjpittman/?hl=en)

 

JOIN US HERE: 👇

[**LeadCulture Network**](https://4tohd.share.hsforms.com/2ouNuADteQMyRkLd0a3z2Dw) – Community, training, and tools for culture champions.

 

 

---

**We need your help to get the LeadCulture podcasts in front of more leaders! There are three simple things you can do that truly help us:**

1. Leave a Review - head over to [Apple podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lead-culture-with-jenni-catron/id1433939621) (even if that’s not where you listen) and leave a review! This will help more people find us when they search for leadership podcasts. 
2. Subscribe - we’re available wherever you listen to podcasts.
3. Share - let your friends know about the podcast by sharing your favorite episode on social media!

 

 Topics: [Purpose](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/purpose), [Leadership](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/leadership), [Strength](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/strength), [Values](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/values), [Podcast](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/podcast), [Team Culture](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/team-culture), [team values](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/team-values), [passion](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/passion), [success](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/success), [staff values](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/staff-values), [Organizational Culture](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/organizational-culture), [Workplace](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/workplace), [Workplace Culture](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/workplace-culture), [transformation](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/transformation), [Empathy](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/empathy), [relationships](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/relationships)

- [Tweet](https://twitter.com/share)

## Leave Comment

### Subscribe to Our Podcast

### Most Popular

### Podcast By Topic

- [Leadership (216)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/leadership)
- [Podcast (190)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/podcast)
- [Purpose (127)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/purpose)
- [Culture (121)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/culture)
- [Team Culture (95)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/team-culture)
- [Values (83)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/values)
- [Workplace (70)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/workplace)
- [passion (69)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/passion)
- [Organizational Culture (65)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/organizational-culture)
- [Empathy (64)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/empathy)
- [Strength (64)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/strength)
- [transformation (64)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/transformation)
- [Workplace Culture (62)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/workplace-culture)
- [relationships (61)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/relationships)
- [success (58)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/success)
- [staff values (56)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/staff-values)
- [team values (56)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/team-values)
- [Leadership Development (44)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/leadership-development)
- [planning (25)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/planning)
- [Boldly Conference (20)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/boldly-conference)
- [Polished Network (20)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/polished-network)
- [self leadership (17)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/self-leadership)
- [Communication (14)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/communication)
- [Extraordinary Leadership (14)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/extraordinary-leadership)
- [Clarity (13)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/clarity)
- [Self Awareness (13)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/self-awareness)
- [Vision (12)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/vision)
- [Coaching (11)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/coaching)
- [women in leadership (10)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/women-in-leadership)
- [Leading Change (9)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/leading-change)
- [change (9)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/change)
- [mission (9)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/mission)
- [personal growth (9)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/personal-growth)
- [Leadership Training (7)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/leadership-training)
- [Team Dynamics (7)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/team-dynamics)
- [influence (7)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/influence)
- [reflection (7)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/reflection)
- [4 Dimensions of Leadership (6)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/4-dimensions-of-leadership)
- [Team Development (6)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/team-development)
- [insight (6)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/insight)
- [trust (6)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/trust)
- [Challenges (5)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/challenges)
- [Women Leaders (5)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/women-leaders)
- [culture conference (5)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/culture-conference)
- [engagement (5)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/engagement)
- [limits (5)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/limits)
- [teams (5)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/teams)
- [Feedback (4)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/feedback)
- [Organizational Clarity (4)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/organizational-clarity)
- [Staff Development (4)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/staff-development)
- [burnout (4)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/burnout)
- [connection (4)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/connection)
- [delegation (4)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/delegation)
- [hybrid (4)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/hybrid)
- [org chart (4)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/org-chart)
- [Blind spots (3)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/blind-spots)
- [Organizational Development (3)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/organizational-development)
- [Vision-Driven Leader (3)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/vision-driven-leader)
- [anxiety (3)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/anxiety)
- [appreciation (3)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/appreciation)
- [boundaries (3)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/boundaries)
- [church leaders (3)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/church-leaders)
- [gratitude (3)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/gratitude)
- [mentor (3)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/mentor)
- [priorities (3)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/priorities)
- [retention (3)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/retention)
- [rhythms (3)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/rhythms)
- [Authenticity (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/authenticity)
- [Catherine Gates (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/catherine-gates)
- [Culture Framework (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/culture-framework)
- [Culture Matters (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/culture-matters)
- [Emotional Intelligence (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/emotional-intelligence)
- [Employee (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/employee)
- [Encouragement (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/encouragement)
- [Human Resources (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/human-resources)
- [Leadership Transitions (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/leadership-transitions)
- [Momentum (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/momentum)
- [Personal Journey (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/personal-journey)
- [Scott Savage (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/scott-savage)
- [Self Discovery (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/self-discovery)
- [Servant Leadership (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/servant-leadership)
- [Soul Care (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/soul-care)
- [Staff Culture (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/staff-culture)
- [Tips (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/tips)
- [Womens Coaching Group (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/womens-coaching-group)
- [accountability (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/accountability)
- [carey nieuwhof (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/carey-nieuwhof)
- [confidence (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/confidence)
- [hiring (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/hiring)
- [humility (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/humility)
- [leadr (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/leadr)
- [meetings (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/meetings)
- [organizational chart (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/organizational-chart)
- [predictable success (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/predictable-success)
- [routines (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/routines)
- [young leaders (2)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/young-leaders)
- [4 Dimensions (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/4-dimensions)
- [Andi Andrew (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/andi-andrew)
- [Assessment (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/assessment)
- [Attitude (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/attitude)
- [Auntie Anne Beiler (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/auntie-anne-beiler)
- [Avoidance Cultures (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/avoidance-cultures)
- [Balancing Life (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/balancing-life)
- [Benevolent (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/benevolent)
- [Biblical Perspective (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/biblical-perspective)
- [Book Launch (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/book-launch)
- [Brad Lomenick (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/brad-lomenick)
- [Braving Change (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/braving-change)
- [Celebrate (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/celebrate)
- [Celebration (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/celebration)
- [Change Management (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/change-management)
- [Church View (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/church-view)
- [Continuous Learning (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/continuous-learning)
- [Contribute (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/contribute)
- [Culture Builders (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/culture-builders)
- [Culture Building (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/culture-building)
- [Culture Operating System (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/culture-operating-system)
- [Dynamics (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/dynamics)
- [Education (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/education)
- [Eternal Significance (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/eternal-significance)
- [Focus (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/focus)
- [Generosity (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/generosity)
- [Global Leadership Network (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/global-leadership-network)
- [Growth Mindset (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/growth-mindset)
- [HR (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/hr)
- [Healthy Work Environment (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/healthy-work-environment)
- [Heart (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/heart)
- [Hire (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/hire)
- [Impact (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/impact)
- [Impetus (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/impetus)
- [Individual Purpose (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/individual-purpose)
- [Insecurity (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/insecurity)
- [Instincts (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/instincts)
- [Intuition (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/intuition)
- [Jason Young (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/jason-young)
- [Jeanne Stevens (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/jeanne-stevens)
- [Jeff Henderson (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/jeff-henderson)
- [Jerry Hurley (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/jerry-hurley)
- [John Busacker (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/john-busacker)
- [Jordan Montgomery (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/jordan-montgomery)
- [Jordan Raynor (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/jordan-raynor)
- [Julie Pierce (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/julie-pierce)
- [Lead Better (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/lead-better)
- [Learning (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/learning)
- [Lindsey Epperly (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/lindsey-epperly)
- [Margin (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/margin)
- [Matt Randerson (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/matt-randerson)
- [Mental Health (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/mental-health)
- [Mentorship (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/mentorship)
- [Ministry (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/ministry)
- [Modeling (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/modeling)
- [Obedience (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/obedience)
- [Organizational health (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/organizational-health)
- [Ownership (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/ownership)
- [Peer-to-peer (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/peer-to-peer)
- [Personal Coaching (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/personal-coaching)
- [Pride (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/pride)
- [Professional Growth (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/professional-growth)
- [Responsibilities (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/responsibilities)
- [Roles (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/roles)
- [Sacredness of Secular Work (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/sacredness-of-secular-work)
- [Scaling Business (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/scaling-business)
- [Shannon Miles (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/shannon-miles)
- [Spiritual Health (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/spiritual-health)
- [Steve Jones (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/steve-jones)
- [Strategic Pauses (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/strategic-pauses)
- [Strategy (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/strategy)
- [Succession Planning (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/succession-planning)
- [Superpower (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/superpower)
- [Team Building (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/team-building)
- [Think Differently (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/think-differently)
- [Tyler Reagin (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/tyler-reagin)
- [Understanding (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/understanding)
- [Voice (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/voice)
- [William Vanderbloemen (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/william-vanderbloemen)
- [Working Genius (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/working-genius)
- [covid-19 (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/covid-19)
- [discipline (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/discipline)
- [fatigue (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/fatigue)
- [finances (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/finances)
- [flexibility (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/flexibility)
- [friendship (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/friendship)
- [growth (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/growth)
- [habits (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/habits)
- [hope (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/hope)
- [intentional (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/intentional)
- [jenni catron (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/jenni-catron)
- [leadershippodcast (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/leadershippodcast)
- [liminal spaces (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/liminal-spaces)
- [perspective (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/perspective)
- [perspective shift (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/perspective-shift)
- [serving (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/serving)
- [stewardship (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/stewardship)
- [strategic planning (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/strategic-planning)
- [sustainability (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/sustainability)
- [time management (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/time-management)
- [trends (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/trends)
- [twin thieves (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/twin-thieves)
- [vanderbloemen (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/vanderbloemen)
- [volunteers (1)](https://podcast.get4sight.com/tag/volunteers)

[See all](https://podcast.get4sight.com/322-the-trust-recession-why-leadership-isnt-working-like-it-used-to#)